Bill Bruford: Difference between revisions

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Halen, Al Di Miola and others. I was just lucky to have the right vehicle available at the right
Halen, Al Di Miola and others. I was just lucky to have the right vehicle available at the right
time for him to do his thing.
time for him to do his thing.
==[[No Rearview Mirrors (20th Century Guitar 2007)]]==
'''Bill''' Bruford on Allan Holdsworth and Rock Goes to College


TCG: Your CD and DVD release of Rock Goes T. College seems like good timing to speak with you about the 30th anniversary of the Bruford band, were you planning to make RGTC a 30th anniversary CD/DVD?


BB: Not really, getting stuff from the
BBC is very difficult and expensive. We were just trying to make the numbers work and everybody could enjoy it. But it cost a lot of money to get that stuff from the
BBC. They do a very good job so they’re worth it.


TCG: Can you reflect back on working with Allan Holdsworth and all the great players in your group between ‘77-79?


BB: Just going back to the time, I was figuring what I wanted to do after I left Genesis in ‘76- ‘77 was start my own recording career. To do that you need to call some people, I found Jeff Berlin in Long Island where he was living. And I knew I wanted Allan Holdsworth. With Allan, you needed a bass player who could keep up. Against those two, you really needed a steady keyboard player who wasn’t going to be a soloist so much. So Dave Stewart was the obvious keyboard choice for this thing. That was the core group, but we also added a jazz flugelhorn player here called Kenny Wheeler and Annette Peacock, who was Gary Peacock’s wife, the bass player with DeJohnette. She was residing here in the U.K. at the time. So it was kind of a cool quartet with guests really. It was great. We hit if off right from the start. Allan was terrific. Around that time, America was pretty unfamiliar with Allan in the late ‘70s. We knew him here. And in a way, that was the bridge for Allan between the U.K. and the United States,


TCG: You wrote some cool liner notices for Rock Goes To College where you say, "what we could do with that group now!" Can you speculate what might have been the next step with the Feels Good To Me lineup with Allan Holdsworth?


BB: They were big albums and they’re much talked about these days. It was great. I think that the comment in the liner notes is kind of facile probably. These things do have a moment in time when they are relevant. They were relevant in ‘77, ‘78 and ‘79 with U.K. and that band Bruford and everything. That was its period. By 1980 I was back in Crimson doing like electric world music. That was fine and that’s the way it should be.


TCG: Allan Holdsworth left after the Rock Goes To College show from March 7th, 1979. I saw Bruford play at My Father’s Place in July 1979 and we were surprised that Allan wasn’t playing guitar with you anymore!


BB: Yeah, I was surprised Allan wasn’t with me! When you get to know Allan, you get to know, he’s a free spirit. Sometimes he comes and sometimes he doesn’t.


TCG: Is there any reason why you don’t work with guitar players much these days?


BB: I moved literally from electric rock to acoustic jazz, play pertly much acoustic jazz full time now with pianos, saxophones and basses. Any reason? No, not particularly. I’m more interested in people then the instruments they play. The people I want to play with right now play pianos and saxophones and basses. But hey, I spent a lot of time with guitarists, its nice to have a change.


TCG: So there’s no chance of a reunion with the Rock Goes R. College lineup’?
BB: No, there’s no chance of that Robert. There’s no more material with that band available! (laughter) I’m not sitting on boxes of material that was never released.


TCG: So will there be any more vintage material on your Winterfold label?


BB: I’m not sure, you just have to wait and see, as I will, I’ve probably said everything I can about Rock Goes to College, I really liked it. I loved the band. I loved being the leader of the band. I consider it a privilege to have worked with those people at that time. And of course it was my first effort, to compose music that would attract these people. To give them something to play. It’s not easy to find something for somebody as good as Allan Holdsworth to play. You had to think like a guitar player, which I wasn’t really doing. You need to under write because Allan’s going to fill for much and that’s what you want to hear. And of course, lover wrote everything. So, in a way when he got pissed off at being boxed in by the music, I think he was probably right to feel that way. In a way, I did nail him to the ground a bit, but on the other hand he was used sparingly but to devastating effect.


=ALLAN ON BILL=
=ALLAN ON BILL=
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Over the next few years Holdsworth recorded on several albums, including drummer '''Bill''' Bruford’s first solo LP Feels Good To Me, and Jean-Luc Ponty’s Enigmatic Ocean. By this point touted primarily as a soloist, Holdsworth found himself trapped into a one-dimensional mode, feeling he had more to offer than just flashy embellishment to other people’s songs.
Over the next few years Holdsworth recorded on several albums, including drummer '''Bill''' Bruford’s first solo LP Feels Good To Me, and Jean-Luc Ponty’s Enigmatic Ocean. By this point touted primarily as a soloist, Holdsworth found himself trapped into a one-dimensional mode, feeling he had more to offer than just flashy embellishment to other people’s songs.


How did you happen to play with '''Bill''' Bruford?

'''Bill''' asked me if I would play on his album, Feels Good To Me. Afterwards, I started to really get sick of soloing. I couldn’t stand it any longer, so I just killed myself with alcohol. When '''Bill''' asked me to work on his second album, One Of A Kind, I expected things to be different, especially since he had Jeff Berlin on bass. Jeff’s a very good player.
How did you happen to play with '''Bill''' Bruford?


 
'''Bill''' asked me if I would play on his album, Feels Good To Me. Afterwards, I started to really get sick of soloing. I couldn’t stand it any longer, so I just killed myself with alcohol. When '''Bill''' asked me to work on his second album, One Of A Kind, I expected things to be different, especially since he had Jeff Berlin on bass. Jeff’s a very good player.
 
Had things become better?


 
Not much. With '''Bill''' and U.K. the rehearsals had almost nothing to do with what ultimately went on the records. We just played bits and pieces of songs, and they would shake them up and record them. Then we had to try to reproduce those parts live. And I just don’t feel at home doing that. I’d ‘rather play something first, and then record it. Now, I’m not against overdubbing - it’s great. It’s nice to embellish things, but I think that the important things should go down on the tracks so that when you play the songs onstage, nine times out of ten they’ll sound better. With U.K., particularly, we had millions of overdubs, and then we had to try to decide who could play what parts live because one guy doesn’t have four hands, and so on. Again it comes back to the magical quality of interplay between band members.
 
How did U.K. form?




Had things become better?

Not much. With '''Bill''' and U.K. the rehearsals had almost nothing to do with what ultimately went on the records. We just played bits and pieces of songs, and they would shake them up and record them. Then we had to try to reproduce those parts live. And I just don’t feel at home doing that. I’d ‘rather play something first, and then record it. Now, I’m not against overdubbing - it’s great. It’s nice to embellish things, but I think that the important things should go down on the tracks so that when you play the songs onstage, nine times out of ten they’ll sound better. With U.K., particularly, we had millions of overdubs, and then we had to try to decide who could play what parts live because one guy doesn’t have four hands, and so on. Again it comes back to the magical quality of interplay between band members.
'''Bill''' said that he had an idea of working with [keyboardist] Eddie Johnson and [bassist] John Wetton. He asked me if I would like to go to a rehearsal and play. I agreed, and it looked promising. But the closer we came to recording, the more sterile the music sounded. Just before I left the band, I used to daydream an awful lot while we were playing all those bits onstage; you know, thinking about a nice pint of beer or something. I was easily distracted. And because I couldn’t associate all those bits - they didn’t form any kind of cohesive picture in my mind - I wouldn’t know if it was tune three or tune six or what.


How did U.K. form?

'''Bill''' said that he had an idea of working with [keyboardist] Eddie Johnson and [bassist] John Wetton. He asked me if I would like to go to a rehearsal and play. I agreed, and it looked promising. But the closer we came to recording, the more sterile the music sounded. Just before I left the band, I used to daydream an awful lot while we were playing all those bits onstage; you know, thinking about a nice pint of beer or something. I was easily distracted. And because I couldn’t associate all those bits - they didn’t form any kind of cohesive picture in my mind - I wouldn’t know if it was tune three or tune six or what.
What kind of amps are you using now?


What kind of amps are you using now?

I had Marshalls all the way up through U.K. and with '''Bill''' Bruford. Since then, I’ve gotten two [Norlin] Lab Series amps and a British amp called a Hartley-Thompson. The trouble with the Marshalls was that they only gave a suitable sound for single-note solo stuff. They always distorted the chords; if I wanted to get a clean sound for chords, I had to push the amps too hard. I often ended up with a horrible square-wave, fuzzbox sound.


I had Marshalls all the way up through U.K. and with '''Bill''' Bruford. Since then, I’ve gotten two [Norlin] Lab Series amps and a British amp called a Hartley-Thompson. The trouble with the Marshalls was that they only gave a suitable sound for single-note solo stuff. They always distorted the chords; if I wanted to get a clean sound for chords, I had to push the amps too hard. I often ended up with a horrible square-wave, fuzzbox sound.


==[[Holdsworth & Co. A New Side Of Allan’s Music. (Guitar 1980)]]==
==[[Holdsworth & Co. A New Side Of Allan’s Music. (Guitar 1980)]]==
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==[[Mike Pachelli Show (video transcript 1991)]]==
==[[Mike Pachelli Show (video transcript 1991)]]==


MP: And you also got to work with some great bands, Gong, Jean-Luc Ponty, and '''Bill'''y Bruford, how’d all that come about?

AH: Well '''Bill''' used to hang out at some of the local jazz gig in London – I think he saw us maybe doing that, I’m not exactly sure, and then we made contact and I guess that thing started and then he was doing a solo album and after that he was involved with UK and he suggested to them if they needed a guitar player they might ask me so…so that’s how that happened.
MP: And you also got to work with some great bands, Gong, Jean-Luc Ponty, and '''Bill'''y Bruford, how’d all that come about?


 
AH: Well '''Bill''' used to hang out at some of the local jazz gig in London – I think he saw us maybe doing that, I’m not exactly sure, and then we made contact and I guess that thing started and then he was doing a solo album and after that he was involved with UK and he suggested to them if they needed a guitar player they might ask me so…so that’s how that happened.


MP: And did I read this correctly, that you and Bruford were actually dismissed from the band?

AH: Yeah we were fired!

MP: Why was that?

AH: We were fired by the management but basically it wasn’t the management, I think, I saw that band was essentially as being Eddie’s band, because he was the most involved with the writing of it, and it really was his thing I think, I don’t know, it was kind of getting out. It wouldn’t have worked - I mean If '''Bill''', I’m sure '''Bill''' would have left on his own anyway, but I was sure wouldn’t been able to take it anymore so it was like, being fired was pretty OK – but they were great guys, I really liked all of the guys, good, great musicians - I enjoyed it at the time, well I enjoyed making the record but doing the gigs was hell, but other than that yeah…
MP: And did I read this correctly, that you and Bruford were actually dismissed from the band?


 
AH: Yeah we were fired!

MP: Why was that?

AH: We were fired by the management but basically it wasn’t the management, I think, I saw that band was essentially as being Eddie’s band, because he was the most involved with the writing of it, and it really was his thing I think, I don’t know, it was kind of getting out. It wouldn’t have worked - I mean If '''Bill''', I’m sure '''Bill''' would have left on his own anyway, but I was sure wouldn’t been able to take it anymore so it was like, being fired was pretty OK – but they were great guys, I really liked all of the guys, good, great musicians - I enjoyed it at the time, well I enjoyed making the record but doing the gigs was hell, but other than that yeah…


==[[Creating Imaginary Backdrops (Innerviews 1993)]]==
==[[Creating Imaginary Backdrops (Innerviews 1993)]]==
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Allan: Yeah, it was. I think if it hadn’t been for the U.K. experience I might’ve stayed with '''Bill''' a little bit longer because I really enjoyed playing with him. But with U.K. it was kind of uncomfortable because we had such different tastes in music. All of the guys were great guys, it wasn’t like a personal issue at all. We got along really well. It’s just that (bassist) John (Wetton) and (keyboardist) Eddy (Jobson) were of one mind musically and '''Bill''' and I were of another. And then when I started working with Gary Husband...I had just been introduced to him and played with a couple of times and I thought, ‘Oh man! I wanna play with THIS guy.’ So I decided to form my own band and that’s what cut short the '''Bill''' thing.
Allan: Yeah, it was. I think if it hadn’t been for the U.K. experience I might’ve stayed with '''Bill''' a little bit longer because I really enjoyed playing with him. But with U.K. it was kind of uncomfortable because we had such different tastes in music. All of the guys were great guys, it wasn’t like a personal issue at all. We got along really well. It’s just that (bassist) John (Wetton) and (keyboardist) Eddy (Jobson) were of one mind musically and '''Bill''' and I were of another. And then when I started working with Gary Husband...I had just been introduced to him and played with a couple of times and I thought, ‘Oh man! I wanna play with THIS guy.’ So I decided to form my own band and that’s what cut short the '''Bill''' thing.
==[[No Rearview Mirrors (20th Century Guitar 2007)]]==
'''Bill''' Bruford on Allan Holdsworth and Rock Goes to College

TCG: Your CD and DVD release of Rock Goes T. College seems like good timing to speak with you about the 30th anniversary of the Bruford band, were you planning to make RGTC a 30th anniversary CD/DVD?

BB: Not really, getting stuff from the BBC is very difficult and expensive. We were just trying to make the numbers work and everybody could enjoy it. But it cost a lot of money to get that stuff from the BBC. They do a very good job so they’re worth it.

TCG: Can you reflect back on working with Allan Holdsworth and all the great players in your group between ‘77-79?

BB: Just going back to the time, I was figuring what I wanted to do after I left Genesis in ‘76- ‘77 was start my own recording career. To do that you need to call some people, I found Jeff Berlin in Long Island where he was living. And I knew I wanted Allan Holdsworth. With Allan, you needed a bass player who could keep up. Against those two, you really needed a steady keyboard player who wasn’t going to be a soloist so much. So Dave Stewart was the obvious keyboard choice for this thing. That was the core group, but we also added a jazz flugelhorn player here called Kenny Wheeler and Annette Peacock, who was Gary Peacock’s wife, the bass player with DeJohnette. She was residing here in the U.K. at the time. So it was kind of a cool quartet with guests really. It was great. We hit if off right from the start. Allan was terrific. Around that time, America was pretty unfamiliar with Allan in the late ‘70s. We knew him here. And in a way, that was the bridge for Allan between the U.K. and the United States,

TCG: You wrote some cool liner notices for Rock Goes To College where you say, "what we could do with that group now!" Can you speculate what might have been the next step with the Feels Good To Me lineup with Allan Holdsworth?

BB: They were big albums and they’re much talked about these days. It was great. I think that the comment in the liner notes is kind of facile probably. These things do have a moment in time when they are relevant. They were relevant in ‘77, ‘78 and ‘79 with U.K. and that band Bruford and everything. That was its period. By 1980 I was back in Crimson doing like electric world music. That was fine and that’s the way it should be.

TCG: Allan Holdsworth left after the Rock Goes To College show from March 7th, 1979. I saw Bruford play at My Father’s Place in July 1979 and we were surprised that Allan wasn’t playing guitar with you anymore!

BB: Yeah, I was surprised Allan wasn’t with me! When you get to know Allan, you get to know, he’s a free spirit. Sometimes he comes and sometimes he doesn’t.

TCG: Is there any reason why you don’t work with guitar players much these days?

BB: I moved literally from electric rock to acoustic jazz, play pertly much acoustic jazz full time now with pianos, saxophones and basses. Any reason? No, not particularly. I’m more interested in people then the instruments they play. The people I want to play with right now play pianos and saxophones and basses. But hey, I spent a lot of time with guitarists, its nice to have a change.

TCG: So there’s no chance of a reunion with the Rock Goes R. College lineup’? BB: No, there’s no chance of that Robert. There’s no more material with that band available! (laughter) I’m not sitting on boxes of material that was never released.

TCG: So will there be any more vintage material on your Winterfold label?

BB: I’m not sure, you just have to wait and see, as I will, I’ve probably said everything I can about Rock Goes to College, I really liked it. I loved the band. I loved being the leader of the band. I consider it a privilege to have worked with those people at that time. And of course it was my first effort, to compose music that would attract these people. To give them something to play. It’s not easy to find something for somebody as good as Allan Holdsworth to play. You had to think like a guitar player, which I wasn’t really doing. You need to under write because Allan’s going to fill for much and that’s what you want to hear. And of course, lover wrote everything. So, in a way when he got pissed off at being boxed in by the music, I think he was probably right to feel that way. In a way, I did nail him to the ground a bit, but on the other hand he was used sparingly but to devastating effect.


==[[Allan Holdsworth (Sound Waves 2012)]]==
==[[Allan Holdsworth (Sound Waves 2012)]]==
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R.V.B. - In the late 70’s you hooked up with guys like Jean Luc Ponty and Tony Williams. Things are starting to happen now. Was that a natural process to lead you to finally going out on your own and leading your own project?

A.H. - I loved working with Jean Luc and I loved working with Tony Williams. I got to a point where I just wanted to play my own music. It was a logical step to form a group of my own with Gary Husband and Paul Carmichael. We did that for a while and then I left the UK. I worked with '''Bill''' Bruford, which was great.
R.V.B. - In the late 70’s you hooked up with guys like Jean Luc Ponty and Tony Williams. Things are starting to happen now. Was that a natural process to lead you to finally going out on your own and leading your own project?

A.H. - I loved working with Jean Luc and I loved working with Tony Williams. I got to a point where I just wanted to play my own music. It was a logical step to form a group of my own with Gary Husband and Paul Carmichael. We did that for a while and then I left the UK. I worked with '''Bill''' Bruford, which was great.
=Links=
Also see https://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/November_1980_interview_with_Bill_Bruford
Retrieved from "https://allanholdsworth.info/ahwiki/index.php/Bill_Bruford"